approved
(Copies of Agendas and Minutes of the Community Council are held at Fife Council’s Local Office, St Mary’s Place and the Town Library, Church Square. Those from mid-1998 on are online at http://www.louisxiv.demon.co.uk/standrewscc/)
Chair: Donald Macgregor
Community Councillors: Laurel Aguilar, George Davidson, Richard Douglas, Ken Fraser, Ian Hamilton, Chris Lesurf, Pete Lindsay, Dennis Macdonald, Murdo Macdonald, Donald Macgregor, Gordon Pay, Joe Peterson, Ewen Sparks, Archie Strachan, Penny Uprichard
Student Association: Derek Macleod, Chris Soper
Fife Councillors: Sheila Black, Jane Ann Liston, Frances Melville, Bill Sangster
Apologies: Ian Goudie, Frank Riddell, Ken Crichton, Cynthia Tero.
approved
None
4.1.1. Park & Ride 1648 passengers carried in the first week, up from under 500 last year. Very Successful. Result of improvements in advertising, signs and extra stops. Woolworths in Market Street is the most popular stop.
It was commented though that the service is poorly signposted from routes into town other than the A91.
4.1.2. 7th Golf Course The Links Trust will be making presentations on their plans for the 7th golf course. There will be an exhibition of plans in the Eden Clubhouse but also a private presentation to involve representatives of community council. There will be a formal invitation letter with details, but the date will be 30th July.
Chair, Planning Committee and Golf Liaison delegated to attend.
Donald Macgregor, Ian Goudie, Murdo Macdonald, Dennis Macdonald, Joe Peterson
4.1.3. David Russell Hall opening ceremony for phase 1 on 17th July. Fife Councillors advised not to attend because this is very close to the special East Development Committee hearings on phase 2.
4.1.5. Review of parking charges Cllr Melville said pretence that this was to do with parking control had been dropped and that this is purely a an income-raising measure. She had asked last year for a deferral of the increase pending the Fife-wide parking strategy review, and to add a half hour option. This was defeated last year but she put the motion again this year and won by one vote. Since the council elections this year the Labour administration no longer have a majority to ram measures through.
On the subject of the strategic review of parking she has written to Transportation Service to express the lack of confidence felt by many who had attended the meeting in St Andrews in the consultants the Service has employed.
4.1.6. Common Good Fund There was a meeting community council (Cynthia Tero, Archie Strachan, Donald Macgregor) and council officers. It was a very productive meeting; the officers will report back the options discussed.
Archie Strachan thanked Cllr Melville for setting up the meeting, and agreed it was very useful. He will report fully to community council when he has the minute of the meeting.
4.1.7. Lammas Market Murdo Macdonald expressed concerns about the size of police charges for policing the fair, which he feared would wipe out all the fair income to the Common Good Fund. Frances Melville agreed and reported that negotiations on the policing charge were ongoing. Her latest information is that charge is in the low thousands of pounds. The points about the effect on the CGF were part of the discussion in item 4.1.6.
4.1.8. Police Station Sign Ken Crichton sent in a question to Cllr Frances Melville as East Area Development Chair asking how the Police were granted permission for an internally illuminated sign, the only one on North Street, in the Conservation Area and strictly against planning rules for the area.
None of the Councillors was aware of this; it had not been through East Development Committee. The report in The Citizen (4 July p1) stated that permission had been granted by officials under delegated powers.
Richard Douglas, who had written a letter of objection to an earlier application on behalf of Community Council had been informed that it had been withdrawn. No notification had been made of a resubmission or an objection would again have been raised.
Cllr Frances Melville to investigate urgently
4.1.9. St Andrews-Leuchars Cycle Path Dennis Macdonald reported damage to the path surface due to plants pushing through the tarmac, and Chris Soper added a question on when encroaching verges will be trimmed. Both will be taken up with officials by Councillor Frances Melville.
4.2.1. Ceilidh Gave information on this year’s summer ceilidh – Sunday 20th 7.30-11pm, Town Hall.
4.2.2.Town Hall Lift Apropos holding events in the Town Hall, Penny Uprichard asked if the lift could be more widely used as it is restricted to disabled users only, she understands, when it would be useful (and safer than the stairs) for anyone taking things to the first floor. Donald Macgregor recalled it was put in in the days of the District Council for anyone who needed it. He didn’t think there should be restrictions now. Others reported that they had used the lift without problem by not asking anyone...
4.2.2. Telecoms Mast There are proposals for new mast(s) at the edge of town on Largo Road. She has some plans for anyone interested.
Richard Douglas reported that planning committee had objected on the grounds of height and visibility in the location.
4.2.3. Turning Circle at Younger Gardens etc, she believes this is being provided by the developer as part of the next phase of building.
4.2.4. Brown Bins Chris Soper remarked on the number of unused bins left in the street. Deliveries of bins are still progressing and it seems those in the location described only arrived recently.
Joe Peterson raised a problem of the new bins being delivered to elderly & disabled people who use bags for their rubbish or have the ordinary wheelie bins collected from their property – this hasn’t been done with the new bins.
Cllr Sangster had already reported this problem; it seems there had been different ‘special case’ lists used by the separate teams responsible for rubbish bins and green/brown bins. Integrating the lists is underway.
He added that anyone who really didn’t think they would ever use the bin can phone Environmental Services to have it uplifted.
4.2.5. Botanic Gardens The Convener of Fife Council was heavily lobbied (while attending a Buddhist peace ceremony) on the good work of the Gardens and the Glass Class particularly running costs.
4.3. Bill Sangster (Central)
4.3.1. Park & Ride Encouraged everyone to use the free circulating buses for journeys around the centre. The more successful (ie used) it is the greater the likelihood of the service expanding. There is a chance that that a town bus may be introduced to cover the route outside the free season.
4.3.2. Bus Shelter He is very impressed with the quality of the new shelter opposite the Gateway building on the North Haugh. He asked for opinions on using a similar design in the town centre, perhaps as on South Street.
Several members of community council had had similar thoughts. No one spoke against the idea.
4.3.3. Refuse Collections [June 4.2.2.] He is still on at the problems in the town centre. In Greyfriars Garden and Bell Street there is a problem with the amounts of rubbish waiting on the pavements for collection. This sometimes blocks the way for pedestrians, forcing buggies particularly to take to the roadway to get past.
Ewen Sparks asked about the number of bins apparently living on the streets in the town centre. Cllr Sangster pointed out the new policy for the yellow commercial bins that are coming in is that if they are left out they will be removed. He added that there are new positions for litter wardens being created to keep track of this and also to check excess rubbish overfilling bins – there are sometimes claims that bins are overflowing because fly-filling by neighbours. These wardens will be able to investigate such claims.
Joe Peterson suggested that they yellow bins should have the business name or street number clearly displayed so blame for stay-outs could be easily apportioned.
Chris Soper thought it would help to collect central rubbish outwith the business day. Bill Sangster agreed. He has officials looking into alternatives, suitable for a tourist town, such as out of hours collections or fewer large communal bins in disguised enclosures.
4.3.4. West Port Toilets He agrees with the community council policy that these are in a very important location and will campaign for their retention and maintenance.
4.3.5. Kinnessburn [4.3.10] SEPA’s latest word on suggestions of a tidy-up rather than full dredging, is that Fife Council can do whatever work is necessary but must avoid environmental harm.
Fife Council will form a working group to look at funding a flood study. It is noted however that the width of the burn through the silt banks has not changed significantly in past two years and may well have reached natural stability.
4.3.6. St Andrews in Bloom He reported that all baskets, window boxes, etc are out and established. Watering is underway. He especially congratulated Murray Park & Place for the quality of displays. Some extra funds allowed floral boxes at War Memorial.
4.3.7. Stanley Smith Right of Way [June 5.] The University’s proposed gate at Stanley Smith House (up the passageway between The Eating Place and Dangles) was discussed because of its right-of-way implications. If people have been using this route from South Street through to St Mary’s Place for 20 years or more it is probably legally a right-of-way now. Cllr Bill Sangster said that the rights of the property owners in the area to protect their property should be considered but admitted Rights of Way legislation might force the issue.
4.3.8. Parking [June 4.3.12] Transportation Services will not alter the parking areas at Murray Park/Place until they next need repainting. At the West Port they won’t take out the parking place that blocks the turning circle because of the loss of other parking spaces in the area.
4.4.1. Size of Brown Bins Has raised the question of one size (large) fits all brown bins. The reason given for the large bins is so that a reasonable amount of twig and branch garden waste can be put into the bin without forcing, which can result in the debris jamming the bin so it does not empty properly. However she is making the case that some people, like her, have only very small gardens and/or awkward access to the collection point making the big bin unnecessary and awkward; there should be a small bin option for those in this situation who still want to contribute to green waste recycling.
4.4.2. Paper Bank She has asked for a paper bank at Spar on Tom Morris Drive. This is being investigated but the signs look promising.
4.4.3. Lammas Working Group Met in Cupar to discuss this year’s arrangements. Cllrs Liston and Sangster made the point that this should really be held in St Andrews in case site inspections would help discussions and not just to make it easier for Community Council’s representatives to attend.
Joe Peterson (invited as Recreation Committee convenor) and Donald Macgregor (invited as Chair) and added that the very short notice to they received of this meeting (less than 24 hours) made it impossible for them to have attended in any case.
4.4.4. Lammas Sunday Opening Pre-empting item 7.6 she outlined the request for the fair open on Sunday. Some took the attitude that there should be no change whatsoever and the fair to remain closed on Sunday. There was however substantial support for limited opening both in hours and strictly limited as to noise that would be permitted, particularly restricting heavy machinery and music.
On a show of hands: limited Sunday opening attracted 9 votes, status quo 8 votes.
4.4.5. Last Bus & Train at Leuchars There is to be improved coordination between the last train from Edinburgh and the last bus to St Andrews at Leuchars station. If there is no sign of the train when the bus arrives the driver will phone for information on its location. If it is arriving within a short-ish period of time (5 minutes?) the bus will wait for it.
4.4.6. Weekend Work on Forth Bridge While the bridge is closed over July/August weekends travellers going to the west of Scotland may use the Dundee/Stirling/Glasgow route normally blocked by ticket restrictions (despite being shorter than the equivalent through Edinburgh).
4.4.7. Council House Vacancies A query was raised why a 3 bedroom council house has lain vacant since February? Cllr Jane Ann Liston will investigate the matter.
4.4.8. Langlands Road Toilets Cllr Jane Ann Liston was asked to find out when the male toilets will reopen. They were badly vandalised in April.
Circulated at the meeting:
Planning Report – from the minutes of Planning Committee meetings of 8.6.03, 22.6.03, and 29.6.03
Planning applications
1. Telecom mast, Largo Road Mr Douglas to object on environmental grounds
2. 54 Argyle Street Mr Pay to question the nature of the astragals
3. Craigtoun B It was agreed not to object to the application for more garages. Miss Uprichard to object to the highly intensive town houses
4. 76 Market Street Mr Douglas to object to the proposed internally illuminated sign.
5. David Russell Hall An objection has been prepared and will go to Fife Council in the next few days.
6. The Roundel, South Street Mr Davidson, Mr Pay and Miss Uprichard went on a site visit. The building has been decorated and furnished attractively and should make a very pleasant, spacious study place for Theology students. The original problem of a disabled [-access] ramp at the front of the building been solved by making a disabled entrance at the back, without need of a ramp.
Meetings
22/7/03 – 2 p.m. – County Hall, Cupar – re David Russell Hall (East Area Dev. Cttee)
23/7/03 – 7 p.m. – Town Hall, St Andrews – new Hospital (public meeting)
5.2.1. Computer Science Building Murdo Macdonald expressed concern that the letter submitted ‘late’ to the East Area Development Committee meeting (agenda appendix A) was too long and difficult to understand to make its point effectively. He thought planning committee might not be prioritising work correctly if responses to major applications were late and not clearly written.
Joe Peterson was of similar mind. He was concerned that community council had backed the planning position explained by Ian Goudie last month [June 5.] without actually understanding it, overwhelmed by detailed and complex arguments. He would like broader consultation on the form of letters and suggested that everyone on Community Council should be informed when Planning Committee were to discuss major applications so all who choose to do so might take part.
Members of community council were reminded that Planning Committee meets on the second and last Monday of each month at 7.30pm in the Fife Council Local Office, St Mary’s Place and that anyone was welcome to attend.
Pete Lindsay suggested that length of letters was more appropriately a matter for those who attend the planning committee meetings to discuss, when the tactics of how best to respond to a proposal are considered as well as the simple question of whether or not it is acceptable. The letter in question had been circulated to planning committee for comment before being sent.
Donald Macgregor called attention to his comment to the press (in Appendix C) on how the planning committee works on behalf of community council.
Penny Uprichard explained the epithet ‘late’ used to describe the letter was incorrect, as was the implication that this was Planning Committee’s fault. It had been written in response to the Planning Service officials’ report to the Development Committee, which community council only had sight of on the Friday before a Tuesday Development Committee meeting. The officials’ report was thought to be unsatisfactory and a response prepared over the weekend, by the hard work of Ian Goudie, to reiterate and back up the community council position agreed in June. Given the short period of time to work in, the letter could not reasonably be described as late, she said.
5.2.2 Meeting With Fife Council Officials As Chair of East Area Development Cllr Frances Melville suggested that Sandy Cook, East Area Head of Planning, and Head of Law & Administration, Harry Tate, could perhaps come to a Planning Committee meeting to discuss various issues regarding forthcoming applications, local plan preparations and resultant pressure on community council planning committee. It was agreed this might be helpful; next full planning committee to discuss.
noted
PL to draft response
Agreed to send suitable greetings to Patras, with thanks to Mr Ian Mackie for offering to convey them.
PL to arrange
Remitted to 200 Club
Cllr Jane Ann Liston explained that the intention is to add some indicative stops in what is already a ‘Hail & Ride’ designated area. The ‘bothways’ aspect is just that one bus stop flag covers both sides of the street. She emphasised that the new stops were just to make things clearer for existing traffic, there is no intention to run more or more frequent services. Letters have gone out to local residents.
There was some concern expressed, from personal experience, that Bothways signs are liable to be confusing to those with learning difficulties.
Some were not aware of the Hail & Ride scheme that operates already in the area these are proposed for – it was suggested that this should be more widely advertised.
This tentative approach does not meet with the guidelines established in [December 2002 9.1.1, see also Dec 02 Agenda Appendix G item 4]. As it isn’t specifically addressed to us it will be returned to Rachel Hay unless a local group is found to take it up.
Anyone with contacts in a likely group to pass details on to Pete Lindsay.
Report passed to Chris Lesurf
See 4.4.3. above.
Agreed that some gesture should be made to mark the RSCDS anniversary and their long attendance in St Andrews.
PL to contact RSCDS
Noted. Penny Uprichard asked for post/phone contact details rather than email.
There was some concern at the conditions listed on the sample forms circulated. Several members noted that a blanket ban on Live Music at parties covers acoustic music which is unlikely to cause disturbance as opposed to amplified/disco/rave. It was thought that live unamplified music should be permitted.
Derek Macleod, Students' Association President, speaking from personal experience, said that in the past communication between the various branches of Fife Council involved and the Police had had poor communications between them resulting in problems over responding to requests for parties.
Community council as a whole were against outright charges for parties but agreed that a discretionary requirement for a deposit against possible damage to infrastructure, as has happened, or excessive clean-up would be reasonable.
PL to write via FM
Suggest EnviroCentre contact Mr Christie regarding history of the range.
PL to write
All noted
Joe Peterson attended the launch event which he reported was very worth while over and above the considerable merits of Take a Pride in Fife. Held at the Botanic Gardens a wide range of people were not only introduced to this ‘hidden jewel’, but were also subject to lobbying on its behalf and on behalf of the valuable educational work undertaken there.
All noted
8.1.1. Press Statement noted
8.1.2. MSP Responses noted
Reported that though agreed by Fife Council the administrative grant cheque has not yet arrived; however the bills are still coming in, he added.
8.3.1. Locality Assistant to speak noted
8.3.2. Response to The Courier letter column noted
8.3.3. Heraldry Agreed to invite Mark Dennis to speak on his proposals and conference.
PL to write
9.1.1. Recreation The series of ‘car boot’ sales held at the Boys Brigade Hall car park reported to be successful but not so much so that it would be worth expanding the idea further. Next move to be discussed at the next committee meeting.
9.1.2. Recreation May report (omitted from June 03 Minutes)
Date: Tuesday 13th May 2003-06-03
Beautiful Scotland in Bloom Application for entry into Coastal Resort Class 4 sent.
Discussions ongoing with regard to the placing of concrete tubs for floral decoration at the War Memorial and Craigtoun road circle.
Car Boot Sale during the summer. Agreed after a meeting with Mr Donaldson of the Boys Brigade. To be held on Saturday mornings. Venue: BB hall car park Kinnessburn Road commencing Saturday the 7th June. Helpers required.
New members any volunteers
Date of next meeting Tuesday 10th June time to be advised.
None
Meeting agreed with Joe Peterson’s suggestion to send a letter of thanks and praise to Community Services over the excellent state of the flower beds, etc, and in particular the representation of the Arms at Petheram Bridge. Also reported that this excellent level of work spotted at several other locations across NE Fife, evidence of extremely hard work by Alistair Barnard and his teams.
PL to write