There will be a meeting of the community council at 7pm Monday 5th March in the Burgh Chambers of the Town Hall. There will be a short break at about 8pm when the 200 Club draw will be taken.
(read for accuracy in matters of substance - harangue the secretary for minor (spelling etc) errors outwith the meeting)
(For anyone wishing to address the meeting on a matter relevant to St Andrews. Please contact the Secretary or Chair before the meeting. Priority will be given to those who have been invited to speak or have given advance notice)
Presentation by Fife Health Board & Health Council to encourage as many people as possible to respond to the Right for Fife document on health services in Fife: general hospital and maternity; GP and community; care of the elderly; mental health.
Feb 2001 meeting agreed that planning was too important to squeeze into the end of the meeting with other committees.
(Feb 6.4.) Appendix A: Report from Ken Fraser.
(Feb 5.1.)
6.2.1. Scenic Maps Limited - offer to discuss further with us the map's principles. Correspondence Appendix B.
6.2.2. Botanic Garden - Edith Cormack, Chairman of the Friends of the Botanic Garden, writes "I see that St Andrews Botanic Garden is now clearly identified on the Scenic Map ... I should like to thank the Community Council for its support and for its assistance ..."
6.2.3. From the minutes - for information - Appendix C
6.3.1. Charters - (Feb 4.2.1) Paul Marshall (Community Services Halls Manager) is happy for us to arrange where the charters are to hang with the hall keeper. Either the Burgh Chamber (and upstairs foyer) or the Supper Room would be acceptable.
6.3.2. Historical Display - acceptable in principle but the cabinet in the downstairs foyer that we thought to use is not really secure. Paul Marshall is trying to source something more suitable from Museums Service which would also give us the opportunity to display upstairs or down.
Response from Murray Hannah, Area Roads Engineer. Appendix D.
Archie Jamieson writes to ask our permission to use the Community Council arms at the entrance to St Andrews. Appendix E and plans to circulate.
The Noticeboard at the Children's Library has lost its door and an attempt made to pull it off the wall, probably on Tuesday night, whether by wind or malicious hands is unclear. Murdo Macdonald has the door in safe keeping; fortunately though battered it wasn't smashed.
8.1.1. Harbour Lights - Viewing 6.30pm Tue 6th, harbour
8.3.1. Locality Plan - thanks to Kate Hughes for agreeing to postpone her appearance.
Next meeting Tues 6th
If members intend to raise items under AOCB please let the Secretary or Chair know before the meeting. Remember, unless it is urgent, placing items on the agenda for next month's New Business would be more effective...
Assuming that the street pattern at Craigtoun remains the same in spite of some of the houses being unbuilt, we need names for a distributor road and four streets.
The distributor road ought to be named a "Road". One of the streets is curved enough to be a "Crescent", two of the others are short dead-ends which might be named "Place", and one could (for the first time in many years) be described as a "Square".
For the names themselves, by precedent the distributor road should be named from the land it is on if possible. Mr R.N. Smart tells me this one is on the land of Craigtoun. We have of course a road of that name already. However. Craigtoun was for 200 years known as Mount Melville. We cannot use that name exactly, as it was the former name of Craigtoun Road, but Melville Road would suit, thus commemorating General Robert Melville (1723-1809) who renamed the estate and lived there. He was a famous person in his own right, as Governor of Grenada and inventor of the carronade.
Two well-known citizens who died recently deserve commemoration. Dr. Ronald Cant (1908-99), besides his position as a historian, was the virtual founder of the St Andrews Preservation Trust. to which we owe so much. Winifred Mackenzie (1905-2001) and her sister Alison Mackenzie (1907-82) have been among the town's best known artists. This also increases the number of streets named after women.
Councillor Hill has suggested the name of Alexander Berry (1781-1873), a local man who made a fortune in Australia and left a large part of it to the University, who used it to found the Berry Chair of English Literature.
Mr. Richard Batchelor submitted a list of prominent geologists with St Andrews connections. One of them (Forbes) has been used already. The one best known in history would be Robert Chambers (1802-71) who founded the Edinburgh publishing firm of that name. While living in St. Andrews in the early 1840s he published, anonymously, "Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation" which was very influential and is regarded as a predecessor of Darwin's theories.
Thus, considering the sounds of the various combinations, l am suggesting:
Melville Road
Mackenzie Square
Cant Crescent
Berry Place
Chambers Place
K.F.
28/2/2001
[...] "naming of significant locations" and the Community Council's concern over how we decide this.
I am very willing to debate this with the Community Council, if they can be a bit more specific. We are talking about a grey area, which always has potential for different interpretation, by different interested parties.
I am sure if one went and asked a variety of people hoteliers, business people, managers of attractions etc what they considered the "significant locations" in St Andrews are, one would probably end up with a whole variety of definitions. There is also the point to bear in mind, should commercial operations/attractions benefit from other peoples funding while not making any contribution themselves. Where exactly does one draw the line?
As the Community Council is aware, what we do is a commercial operation and has to be funded somehow.
We have to walk a tightrope as to who exactly we offer free entries to, and how we do this. As it can be seen on the St Andrews scenic map board we do offer free entries for a variety of attractions and facilities.
Generally the principle that has been tried and tested over 4-5 years in business, on our other map sites, is if people have to pay to go in to see something, these premises also have advertising budgets, which we try to access, looking for some kind of contribution and certainly an agreement that they feel it would benefit them. We will often heavily discount what we do to accommodate them on the map and surrounding information. These premises also have the right to decide for themselves whether they feel it is in their interest to be portrayed and how they are portrayed.
Certainly all the managers/owners of the various venues in St Andrews have been approached and consulted.
[ ... ]
Please let me know how you would like to take this forward.
[slightly edited from an email sent out following the February meeting]
There seemed to be some feelings last night that the whole of Community Council had not been kept adequately informed/consulted about the Scenic Map. I have therefore quickly searched my records and extracted all the significant occurrences of the Scenic Map that I found.
I apologise for not having thought of this before Monday's [Feb 4th] meeting so that we could have had a more informed and productive debate - obviously given the length of time this has taken some of the detail had been forgotten.
Pete Lindsay
April 99 Agenda
Appendix A - Scenic Maps
From James Rattray's letter of 23/3/99:
"We'd like to consider St Andrews for a Scenic Map. Scenic Maps specialise in producing maps in conjunction with local councils, this allows us to ensure the map accurately portrays the town, with the correct emphasis on the various characteristics of the area.
"In Scotland there are Scenic Maps at Pitlochry and Callander produced with their respective Community Councils and four Scenic Maps in Stirling produced with Stirling Council.
"At your meeting on 5th April I will introduce the Scenic Maps concept, bring examples of our work and answer any questions the meeting may have."
April 99 Minute
2.3. James Rattray - Scenic Maps Ltd
Scenic Maps provide a pictorial map of a location with main streets and features marked, suitable for tourist use. They are painted rather than drawn to provide an attractive pictorial view, rather than formal plan, with cameo photos and adverts to highlight particular attractions. The cost of the map, and annual updates, is covered by the advertising sold on the map itself and the surrounding mounting.
The old (i.e. recently replaced) Pitlochry map was shown as an example and a glossy leaflet copy with further advertising and tourist information was circulated. The Pitlochry map scheme has been running successfully for three years.
Scenic Maps like to work with local organisations such as Community Councils to provide the local detail for the maps (Chris Lesurf suggested bus routes be added); in questions afterwards it was suggested that they also contact the Kingdom of Fife Tourist Board and Merchants' Association as other relevant bodies in St Andrews.
For the Merchants' Association Bill Sangster was concerned that there may not be enough advertising revenue to support both the Merchants' map booklet, another he was aware of to be published soon, and Scenic Maps.
Overall the meeting was quite impressed by the potential of a Scenic Map in St Andrews and looks forward to developments.
June 99 Minute
2.2. Scenic Map
James Rattray of Scenic Maps recapped on the product - a large painted map with major attractions picked out, funded by associated advertising. He displayed an example for the benefit of anyone who was not at the presentation to the April meeting. Since then he's met with the Merchants' Association and the Tourist Board as suggested.
With the Merchants' Association there were no problems over the main map, but they felt that a map booklet such as Scenic Maps produced for other towns would be a problem as they produce their own already. Scenic Maps don't want to intrude so agreed not to produce a competitive booklet and indeed offered free use of their map for the Merchants' booklet. At the Tourist Office however Alison Laughlin was not in favour. He reported that she felt that the 19 or so tourist maps and information boards already about the town are adequate, and moreover were general information not in need of regular updating like Scenic Maps' product. She also had doubts that the Scenic Map would be in keeping with the architecture and style of St Andrews.
In response to questions Mr Rattray indicated that if the Community Council did support the idea of a scenic map he would start to look at possible locations for a single map - preferably somewhere central. Asked how they would assess the need for a map Mr Rattray explained that in other places they used questionnaires after the map was installed to determine whether it was meeting the requirements of those using it.
Meeting agreed to support the principle of a Scenic Map
Frank Riddell to meet and discuss with Merchants Association and Tourist Board
July 99 Minute
(Chair's report)
5.1.3. Map - Met Bob Inch (Merchants Assoc.) and Alison Laughlin (Tourist Board) to discuss Scenic Map.
Advantages: larger than tourist board maps, updated regularly.
Disadvantages: not in keeping with the style of the tourist board's maps, duplication of effort, concern that the map may be abandoned if Scenic Maps pull out / go bust.
Agreed to back if siting outwith the mediaeval centre. As planning permission required will ask for a £200 bond to be posted to cover removal should it be necessary.
Pete Lindsay argued for a central site as there are only two small maps for public reference - one in our own notice board and possibly another in the Tourist Office window while Murdo Macdonald: thought that the Bus Station would be suitable there having been an advertising map there in the past. Maries Cassells wanted to respect historical core of the town - and anyway she prefers to talk to people to give them directions. Chris Lesurf added that it was useful to be able to direct people to where they could browse for info when she wasn't around.
On a show of hands the meeting preferred the Bus Station 7 vs Church Square 6
November 99 Agenda
6.3.6. Scenic Maps - Have written with some further comments on possible locations. The Bus Station is not felt suitable. Alternatives suggested include sites on Market Street, Church Square and South Street. Montage images are included of the likely appearance at these sites. They also answer some of the points of concern raised in July 5.1.3.
November 99 Minute
6.3.6. Scenic Map - passed to the Planning Committee to consider suitable sites from the options proposed by Mr Rattray.
December 99 Minutes
Planning report
7.4.2. Scenic Maps - committee recommended support for the Scenic map proposal in South St as our original suggestion of the Bus Station was unsuitable. In discussion the map was opposed on the grounds of being unnecessary (Maries Cassells) and in bad taste/poor appearance (Tony Fusaro for the Merchants' Assoc).
Pete Lindsay proposed acceptance of Planning Committee's recommendation, Dennis Macdonald seconded. 7 for the recommendation, 5 against, 4 abstained.
Agreed South Street location for map
April 2000 Agenda
6.3.5. Scenic Map of St Andrews - James Rattray of Scenic Maps writes:
"I had a meeting with Mr Ray Short, the Area Roads Engineer about the proposed location in South St to which he had no objections.
We need to discuss the area of the town to be highlighted on the map, so that we can allow the artist to start painting it. Perhaps I could have your views on the area to be shown."
(Plans to circulate)
Suggestions for area to cover?
April 2000 Minutes
6.3.5. Scenic Map - suggest area to include East Sands, Botanic Gardens, North Haugh.
May 2000 minutes
8.5. Planning
June 2000 Agenda
5.7. Scenic Map
James Rattray has the draft map and would like to meet with members of Community Council for feedback.
(The map recently received planning permission).
Who can attend?
June 2000 Minutes
3.4. Scenic Maps
Mr Rattray gave a brief view of the current state of the map, and asked that some members be delegated to study and comment in detail.
Bill Sangster pointed out that there were difficulties in using the Arms, as shown in the 'draft' map, so Mr Rattray agreed to have them removed.
Ken Fraser, Frank Riddell, Pete Lindsay delegated.
September 2000 Agenda addendum
Scenic Map - progress review (29/8/00) Scenic Maps, Ken Fraser, Pete Lindsay. The map is substantially complete but a number of detail corrections of street names etc were recommended. Mr Rattray of Scenic Maps will soon start recruiting advertising sponsorship for the map, and hopes to have it up by Christmas.
December 2000 Agenda
5.3. Scenic Map
The near-complete map was reviewed with the assistance of the Planning Committee on 27th Nov. Mr Rattray anticipates completion early in the new year, and would like any suggestions we have for a suitable unveiling.
December 2000 Minutes
8.4.1. Noticeboard - has arrived, now waiting on the last quotes for its erection in Church Square. There may be a joint unveiling with the Scenic Map which should also be in place soon.
Thank you for your letter of 18 January 2001 regarding the above and please accept my apologies for not responding to you sooner.
I can assure you that Roads Service take adequate measures to ensure roads and pavements are safe for the travelling public. This includes monitoring of them both on a routine basis and undertaking inspections when members of the public notify us of defects. Defects, which are identified and meet the criteria laid down by Council policy, will be repaired within a given timescale. This ensures that given the financial constraints placed on the Council at this present time, money can be spent on areas where it is most needed.
Roads Service is currently liaising closely with Scottish Enterprise Fife (SEF) regarding environmental improvements to roads and footways in the town centre. The Community Council will be aware of this through discussions with SEF. To achieve best value in this major and important project, Roads Service is maximising every opportunity to promote maintenance schemes identified in the Local Roads Programme over the next few years. As I am sure you will recognise, the carriageway in South Street is identified as requiring resurfacing and I will be bringing forward a proposal in the LRP 2001/2002 (and following years) to co-ordinate this work with SEF. You may know that the section between West Port and Bell Street is proposed by them as an initial pilot project. Details are currently being worked up and I propose to compliment this by funding improvement work to the road surface. This strategy will be repeated along the length of South Street. It is crucial that essential maintenance work of this kind is co-ordinated with this long-term project.
Murray S Hannah
Roads Area Engineer (East)
This company has now begun the landscape works on the main A91 approach to St Andrews at Petheram Bridge. During the development of the proposals a site meeting was held to agree the details, and was attended by Mrs Murray and Frank Riddell on behalf of the Community Council.
One element of the scheme involves the construction of an entry feature to the town in the form of a low wall at the outer junction with the access to the Old Course Hotel. This wall would carry a nameplate for the town. At the site meeting Mr Riddell indicated that it might be appropriate for the sign to include the St Andrews coat of arms, the use of which is in the gift of your Council.
This would fit well with the sign proposed, and I therefore write to formally request the right to use the coat of arms on the entry sign to the town. I will send you drawings of the proposed sign location and detail for your consideration.
Archie Jamieson
Scottish Enterprise Fife
|
Date |
in |
Who | Subject | |
|
7/2/01 |
i |
Planning | Fife Structure Plan Sustainability appraisal | IG Plan |
|
12/2/01 |
i |
Roads Service | Kingask section 75 | IG plan |
|
15/2/01 |
i |
Fife Council | Invoice - Town Hall | AS Tres |
|
15/2/01 |
i |
Sheila Hill | Street names | KF |
|
15/2/01 |
i |
ASCC | Feb Newsletter | f |
|
16/2/01 |
i |
Fife Council | Invoice - Town Hall | AS Tres |
|
16/2/01 |
i |
Scottish Enterprise Fife | Town Sign | IG Plan |
|
16/2/01 |
i |
Local Forum for Community Care | Open Day 25/3/01 Cupar | JP HEW |
|
17/2/01 |
i |
Centre for Health & Social Research | Health & lifestyle Survey 2001 | fgr HEW |
|
17/2/01 |
i |
East Local Services | Agenda 21/02/01 | f |
|
18/2/01 |
i |
Kingask Liaison Ctte | Minutes 23/01/01 | DM |
|
18/2/01 |
i |
Environmental Bodies Council | Regional Forum 8/3/01 | f |
|
18/2/01 |
i |
Entrust | January Newsletter | f |
|
18/2/01 |
i |
Entrust/Institute of Civil Engineers | Waste Mgmt conf programme | f |
|
23/2/01 |
i |
Planning | Bus Station Safety Barriers | IG plan |
|
24/2/01 |
i |
Maclays ltd | Play & Sports ground equipment | f |
|
25/2/01 |
o |
Jim Stott | Arms | - |
|
25/2/01 |
o |
Law & Admin | CC Elections | - |
|
26/2/01 |
i |
Community Services | Vol Orgs day seminars | f |
|
26/2/01 |
i |
Roads Service | Reply: road & path conditions | f |
|
28/2/01 |
i |
What's On Publications | Replacement of Celebrating Fife | f |
|
28/2/01 |
i |
Scottish Exec | Land Reform Draft Bill | f |
|
28/2/01 |
i |
VONEF | Voluntary Sector Conference 20 Mar | f |
|
2/3/01 |
i |
Green Belt Forum | How to object to Fife Structure Plan | IG Plan |
|
2/3/01 |
i |
Home Office | Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 | f |
List: Potholes (40mm/1.5in) in the road, damaged pavements (20mm/.75in), missing or damaged toby covers, blocked drains, floods, defective streetlights etc.
Identify the location (Street and number on closest house or streetlight for instance).
Hand to Community Council Secretary Pete Lindsay or to Fife Roads Service.
Defect & Location