Royal Burgh of St Andrews Community Council
Minutes January 2000
for approval
Chair: Frank Riddell
Present:
Community Councillors: Ken Crichton, Kenneth Fraser, Ian Goudie, Barry Joss, David Scott Kinnen, John Landon, Chris Lesurf, Pete Lindsay, Dennis H Macdonald, Murdo Macdonald, Donald Macgregor, Lindsay Murray, Joseph Peterson, Archie S Strachan, Cynthia M Tero, Chris Young.
Students Assoc reps: Steve Durrant, Linda Piálek, Craig Buchanan.
Nominated/Co-opted: Bill Sangster (Merch Assoc), Archie Muir (Arms).
Fife Councillors: Sheila Hill, Jane Ann Liston, Frances Melville.
Apologies: Maries Cassells, Hugh Gray, Helen Lawrie, James Arnold, Jane Hunter-Blair.
2. Contributions from Members of the Public
2.1. General
2.1.1. Police - PC Thompson attended.
Frank Riddell, as Chair, thanked and congratulated the police for their handling of the Hogmanay period which had gone as smoothly and quietly as could be expected. He asked if Community Council wished him to write formally in these terms to Inspector Ritchie; this was approved without dissent.
The only matter raised with PC Thompson was of damage to the grassy areas adjacent to the far end of the West Sands road by off-road driving over night. This was raised by Frank Riddell and confirmed by Lindsay Murray.
PC Thompson replied that the road was patrolled regularly but if there was a problem developing there extra attention would be paid to the area.
2.1.2. Cathy Adamson
Since she last spoke to us (June 99) her job has changed slightly. She now has a Fife-wide planning remit and in particular is Project Director for major capital developments in NE Fife - eg St Andrews hospital.
The health service is entering a period of increased public consultation on needs & priorities which she hoped would be kick started with the consultation meeting on 29th Jan (agenda item 6.3.1).
St Andrews Hospital.
Things are quiet on this front at the moment awaiting the results of the health service reviews for Fife Acute Services and Tayside. There are 3 factors to be considered.
(1) What services are required in the St Andrews building? This needs public involvement so that the process is not just a "consultation" but a dialogue with genuine discussion of not only needs but with involvement of clinicians what services can be provided effectively locally.
(2) This depends on the relationship between St Andrews & Ninewells which in turn depends on what happens between Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline hospitals - services that it might be reasonable to use in Kirkcaldy might be better reached in Dundee than Dunfermline.
(3) The mental health services review is also running - there are no dementia services in St Andrews at the moment.
Site of the hospital - there is no change on this at the moment, but when the services to be offered at the hospital are decided the size of the site required may change.
Ian Goudie asked if this didn't mean that progress on the hospital had gone backwards since she had spoken to us last. Not backwards, but stopped while other things had moved forwards - wider reviews which must be considered in the specification/design process.
Cynthia Tero asked when things would move again. CA said St Andrews was still a priority, that ways forward were being sought. One possibility would be a phased approach, as at Anstruther. St Andrews hospital is urgent because the health centre at Pipeland Road is full to capacity-and perhaps more as people are "hot desking". She hoped a new site would bc planned for necessary expansion to avoid this happening again as quickly as with the early 80s health centre.
Ken Crichton was concerned at the possibility by the mention of Dunfermline; a long way to drive to see someone at visiting time...
CA emphasised that there would be a St Andrews facility. While the health service was looking to focus the very specialised services the general services will be distributed locally. What had to be determined was where to draw the line - is there sufficient demand for day surgery in St Andrews to require the facility to be built into the new hospital.
Several people emphasised the need for a decision soon, as Bill Sangster put it before the site is turned into a golf course. Although Dennis Macdonald pointed out, to general amusement, that St Leonard's Fields are too small for a golf course.
2.1.4. Keith McCartney made a submission regarding a "Friend of St Andrews" award.
Discuss in February
2.1.3. Mr Christie brought to the Council's attention that the American author Stanley Mathews who has written several books connected with St Andrews - on Bobby Jones the golfer, on James Wilson a graduate of the university and signatory of the American Constitution - will be in St Andrews in February researching a book on the Road Hole (Old Course 17).
Mr Christie then went on to talk about some aspects of the history of the Links - gifted to the people of St Andrews by Mary Queen of Scots, of court cases in the 19th century when the town council planned to build on them. He then passed around maps and other papers on these various subjects.
Finally he stated his intention to bequeath his collection of papers and information on the history of St Andrews to Madras College library.
Fife Councillors.
2.2. Cllr Frances Melville.
2.2.1. Zebras - there is to be an on-site inspection of the situation with the councillors and officials from Transportation Service soon (before Feb's CC meeting).
Bill Sangster, for the Merchants' Association, queried a survey on the crossings which he claimed was, in effect, hidden in Fife Council's St Mary's Place Office. He suspected that this was intended to have a poor response so that the council could say "everyone must be happy". He felt that the full extent of the effects of the crossings on traffic flow would not be felt until Easter. He also questioned the risk of emergency vehicles being blocked [but see also Firemaster's remarks last month].
Zebras to go on Feb agenda
2.2.2. Park & Ride - it will be recommended to Economic Development Committee on 11th Jan that the scheme should continue, free again, this year.
Cynthia Tero and John Landon reported attitude problems on the Park & Ride buses. Some drivers seemed to believe that the buses were only for tourists and were from rather unhelpful to positively discouraging towards ordinary residents. Similar problems were mentioned in connection with the 100 service and non-students. It was made clear that these services were open to all.
2.2.3. Craigtoun Park - a special advisory group is to be set up to look at the various serious problems here.
2.3. Cllr Jane Ann Liston
2.3.1. Park & Ride - Mentioned that there was currently some debate over whether the Park & Ride scheme would operate during the Open. One school of thought held that it would obstruct parking spaces for visitors to the golf the other side of the argument pointed out that this would be an insignificant number and that this would a time of most need for Park & Ride.
2.3.2. Bus Timetable Changes - Expressed concerns about the poor publicity for timetable changes to Stagecoach bus services in the area.
Pete Lindsay gave an impassioned account of his experience of the changes: almost total lack of public advertisement of changes, confusing renumbering of services and changes to routes, poor information and unfortunate attitude to callers from some (but by no means all) staff at St Andrews Bus Station. Drivers of the buses were as helpful as they could be in the circumstances but had little more information than the passengers.
Meeting agreed letters be written to Fife Council and Stagecoach about this poor performance.
Pete Lindsay to write
2.3.3. Pothole Watch
Cllr Liston reported on the results of the list of defects reported last month and asked for further reports.
2.3.4. 250th Anniversary of Robert Fergusson
Drew attention to the anniversary of the man who inspired Burns with a quick account of his short life and achievements. His connection with St Andrews was as a student, when he commented on Hall of Residence food with the "Rabbits Grace".
For rabbits young and for rabbits old,
For rabbits hot and rabbits cold,
For rabbits tender and for rabbits tough,
Our thanks we render, for we've had enough.
It was commented by some University-connected members that little had changed in 250 years.
2.4. Cllr Sheila Hill
Cllr Sheila Hill replied to a question from Frank Riddell on reports in the press on the state of Madras buildings in South Street. Chunks of masonry had been falling off the building. She had taken some along to an Education Committee meeting to make a point and found it much more effective than writing memos to officials. Work is now underway to make the fabric of the building safe.
Donald Macgregor commented that in the thirty years he taught at Madras very little maintenance had been done, so this was a very good outcome, historically. He warned that there are also problems at Kilrymont.
<10 minute break>
3. Minutes of December Meeting
Present - Denis Macdonald omitted.
2.2.3. Licensing Board members cannot serve on the Public Protection Committee not Safety Panel.
4. Matters Arising
4.1. Fire vehicles & Traffic Calming
(Dec 2.15.) Cllr Melville reported that the Firemaster had confirmed that there have been no incidents of fire vehicles being impeded by traffic calming in St Andrews.
4.2. Lighting Kinburn Park
(Dec 2.5.6) Linda Piàlek informed the meeting that on the night of the December meeting when she raised this a student was attacked in Kinburn Park, and that as a result the Warden of University Hall had warned residents against using it.
After discussion on where the lighting was inadequate, whether this had any relevance to this case, and whether people should be warned against walking alone after dark it was agreed that the park should not be a no-go area.
Pete Lindsay to write to Fife Council
5. New Business
5.1. Hogmanay 2000
Chris Lesurf explained that she had been approached by a member of the public suggesting that some form of open air celebration with music etc be arranged. It was too late for 1999 but she felt some consideration should be given now in good time for Hogmanay 2000. Even though there was nothing official this year there had been a guitarist playing in Church Sq.
Murdo Macdonald felt that the lack of control of an open air event - weather and who turned up - made it a risky proposition for the Community Council to organise. He was in favour of widening the available events for new year celebrations but indoors, controllably. Joe Peterson called for more local business to arrange events - the Millennium Ceilidh had proven the demand he thought.
It was agreed to take no action now but to bear in mind points raised if and when the next new year events were considered.
5.2. Reception of Visitors to St Andrews.
Archie Strachan put forward his belief that it was incumbent on the Community Council to welcome visiting dignitaries on behalf of St Andrews as the local elected representative body. This could be small receptions for e.g. visiting mayors. He would like Community Council to formally adopt a policy on this.
After a short debate the proposal was passed to the General Purposes committee to consider and make a recommendation.
General Purposes to report
5.3. Exploiting the Open.
Pete Lindsay suggested that community council should initiate a project for the Open with the twin aims of raising awareness of St Andrews as more than just a Mecca of golf, and raise some funds for various good causes.
As well as the guide books he suggested other suggestions for projects included a prize draw, a star reception. It was noted that physical merchandise had been problematical in the past when it hadn’t sold as well as hoped.
A working group was set up to consider possibilities and report back.
David Kinnen, Joe Peterson, Ken Crichton, Cynthia Tero, Steve Durrant, Pete Lindsay, Murdo Macdonald, Ken Fraser, Lindsay Murray.
Pete Lindsay to arrange meeting.
6.1. Chair
6.1.1. Senior Citizens Treat - attended this - a great success.
6.1.2. Lansyer Exhibition - Invited by Crawford Centre to open the Lansyer exhibition on 13 Jan.
6.1.3. Kingask - Fife Council is setting up a monitoring group. Planning conditions have been breached by the developers on Access ways to the site, the number of vehicles and routes used. Was approached by area head of planning, Jim Birrell, to find a Community Council representative and has suggested Chris Young - is this acceptable to council? No objections.
Chris Young to attend Kingask Monitoring Group
Cllr Frances Melville added that as EA Dev Chair she had asked for a report on what was going on at Kingask in the face of reports of over 100 vehicles per day from the site when the section 75 agreement between Fife Council and Developer specified 10...
6.1.4. Kingask II - Scottish Mirror interviewed Frank Riddell and photographed on the site. It will be interesting to see what slant they put on the story - probably appearing in conjunction with the Judicial Review.
6.2. Treasurer
No comprehensive report. Noted that total funds stand over £9k, of which over £3k is in the administrative account. If this is not spent it is likely that our grant from Fife Council will be cut next year.
Frank Riddell pointed out that delays to the proposed notice board were due to hold-ups- in the Planning service who were consulting Historic Scotland for advice on the proposed location at Church Sq/Logies Lane.
6.2.1. Coat-of-Arms - Archie Muir reported that he had found that St Andrews Heritage Co have been taken over by a company Gateway Ltd who he is now trying to contact.
St Andrews Fife Ltd wish to extend their licence but their conditions are unacceptable, further negotiations are underway.
Ken Cochrane, a former resident of the town and designer of the web site http://www.saint-andrews.co.uk/, and host for our History and introduction to St Andrews pages, has asked for permission to use the Arms in relation to his site and spinoffs. Meeting agreed a year's free use in return for his assistance over our web pages, details to be determined by the arms committee.
A firm in Washington DC has contacted us looking for St Andrews branded merchandise - details passed on to existing licensees.
Joe Peterson was concerned at the news that Gateway Ltd may have taken over a licencee, as he understands they are associated with the Schooniehill golf scheme and the Gateway Centre, both of which Community Council has opposed.
6.3. Secretary
6.3.1. Building for Health consultation - several people indicted their willingness to go - forms & leaflets left by Cathy Adamson were circulated to those indicating.
6.3.2. Fife Flood Prevention Report 1999 - Joe Peterson to check, particularly with reference to problems at Schooniehill Road.
6.3.11. Local Services Committee - a decision has been reached to retain afternoon meetings and only at Cupar. Cllr Jane Ann Liston added that the possibility of some sort of travelling local meetings where community councils etc could query councillors and officials was under investigation.
7. Committees.
7.3. Millennium
Report and accounts for the Millennium Ceilidh were circulated. Ken Fraser commended Murdo Macdonald for his hard work and success, drawing attention to the administrative expenses of only £3.86.
The committee will now revert to consideration of more permanent millennium memorial.
7.4. Planning
Report was circulated.
Ian Goudie observed that the structure of the meeting is not entirely satisfactory in that most of the Fife Councillors had gone by the time planning business came.
On the availability of plans for the committee problems continue, but a meeting with planning official is scheduled for Feb 14.
The St Andrews to Leuchars cycle path illustrated the unsatisfactory nature of some consultation. The SUSTRANS route south of the A91 backed by the Community Council was rejected by Fife Council in favour of a proposed route along the old rail track. However what has now emerged is a path running adjacent and north of the A91 for much of its length.
Bill Sangster took up the point about unsatisfactory consultation, pointing to Tourism Management Plan meetings, which he said were run by and for officials from Glenrothes, who had all the decisions agreed between them before they came to the meetings. Not just on tourism issues but on traffic too. He felt that more local interests should be involved.
Cllr Jane Ann Liston contradicted his picture of the meetings, finding them unrecognisable from his description. No decisions are taken at or by the meetings so they can hardly be arranged beforehand. Their purpose is to bring up ideas for the consideration of the full Tourism Forum.
Ian Goudie also mentioned the consultation on the Canongate traffic calming measures as unsatisfactory in that promises about the nature and timing of the consultation made to the Community Council by Transportation Service officials in the presence of Cllr Sheila Hill had been broken with hardly any notification.
7.6. Recreation
Ken Crichton added to Frank Riddell's remarks earlier on the success of the Senior Citizen's Christmas Tea, particularly thanking the students involved and the Association.
The committee will be considering the possibility of a particular commemorative gift for the 2000 tea.
7.7. Youth
Archie Strachan reported that there was no nomination for the Young Citizen award by the Dec 31st deadline, so he would extend it until 31st Jan.
8. AOCB
8.1. Rectorial Drag
Barry Joss, Rector's Assessor to Andrew Neil, asked Community Council to consider taking part in the welcoming ceremonies for the new rector. Agreed in principle.
Acting Chair Murdo Macdonald to arrange
8.2. Dr Ronald Cant
John Landon noted the passing of Ronald Cant - one of the two major town sources of St Andrews history, he felt.