7pm Monday 2nd November 1998 in the Burgh Chambers, Queens Gardens.
Chair: Donald Macgregor
Present:
Community Councillors: Craig Barrett, Ken Crichton, Ken Fraser, Ian Goudie, Hugh Gray, David Kinnen, Pete Lindsay, Dennis Macdonald, Murdo Macdonald, Donald Macgregor, Lindsay Murray, Frank Riddell, Archie Strachan, Cynthia Tero, Chris Young.
Students' Association: Natalie Grant, Daniel Johnson
Nominated: Caroline Jack (Youth Committee), Bill Sangster (Merchants' Association)
Fife Councillors: Patrick Cassells, Sheila Hill, Jane Ann Liston, Frances Melville
Apologies for Absence: Helen Lawrie, Chris Lesurf, Joe Peterson, Maries Cassells
Chief Inspector John Docherty spoke on licensing of traders at the Lammas Market.
This is controlled by the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982. In recent years it has become apparent that suspect goods (stolen or faked) were being offloaded at Lammas. The old system was that licences were issued on the morning of the auction for stall pitches. This left no time for any meaningful check on the applicants, which generally takes 7-10 days. Traders were coming up from the South of England to take advantage of this. In 1997 Trading Standards officers and Police carrying out checks were threatened by traders.
The change to a pre-licensing system allows time for checking on the traders applying, and brings Lammas into line with the other markets in Fife. Of the 50 applications received this year 4 applicants with very serious conviction were refused. Tven so there were two traders reported for offences to do with suspect goods.
He regretted that income from the auction was down this year and hoped that as the Lammas Market was cleaned up reputable traders would return. But he said that his duty was to ensure that the people and goods at the market were within the law. For this reason pre-vetting will stay.
In questions afterwards Ken Crichton raised a case reported at Lammas 1998 where a trader (licensed) who had to take his wife to hospital had his stall closed though it was being run by another member of his family.
Chief Inspector Docherty explained that the law is clear on this point, the licence holder must be present at the stall.
Cynthia Tero asked about the misuse of fireworks in the run up to 5th November.
Chief Inspector Docherty replied that the minimum age allowed to purchase fireworks has increased from 16 to 18 this year. How younger people get their hands on them is a problem he would like to investigate further. He pointed out that all bonfire and fireworks displays in Fife now have to be licensed and the organisers trained. [we received information about this a few months back - PL]
Described problems with harassment by young people in the Fraser Avenue area - eggs and rotten fruit thrown at windows and doors, rubbish on the doorstep and verbal abuse when the perpetrators are confronted. Some of the parents have been approached but do nothing. Particularly a problem on Friday and Saturday nights.
Donald Macgregor has also suffered verbal abuse by some of these youths and reported those he recognised to Madras College.
Bill Sangster asked whether this might be a case where Closed Circuit TV cameras might be deployed.
Murdo Macdonald suggested the same multi-agency approach taken at King Street recently and suggested contacting the Reporter to the Children's Panel.
Ken Crichton asked what sort of times the incidents take place would a curfew, as in Falkirk (?), be appropriate? Mr Kirk replied that incidents occur at times from 7-10pm.
Cllr Frances Melville will raise the problem with Superintendent Thompson at a scheduled meeting, and congratulated Mr Kirk for standing up to the problem.
Cllr Jane Ann Liston pointed out that if the parents of the offending youths were council tenants they were covered by Fife Council's anti-social neighbours policy and anyone affected should contact the Housing Dept directly or via Veronica Henderson the Locality Manager at the St Mary's Place Local Office.
(Mr Kirk also had the opportunity to talk to Chief Inspector Docherty before the meeting).
Mr Christie spoke briefly on the Hay-Fleming collection given to the Town Council in 1925, pointing out that much of the material has never been on public display and much of the interesting material, such as town charters, is currently held in Cupar. He would like to see it suitably displayed in St Andrews. He then circulated some documents and facsimiles before promising to return with more historical information in the New Year.
Noted that Lindsay Murray is not a member of the Golf committee.
Archie Strachan was appointed by acclaim.
(continued from September 5.1.3)
Cllr Patrick Cassells gave an update: since last month he has met with Historic Scotland, the Harbour Trust, Fife Council and Heritage Lottery officials.
It is now clear that the original application for lottery funding was sent to the wrong section of the lottery, the Townscape Initiative is for the regeneration of derelict areas. There will be detailed discussions with the Heritage Lottery in January.
Emergency repairs were agreed with Historic Scotland in the region of £135,000 for work on the Shore Quay, harbour gates and North Pier. Despite these agreed repairs the last 150ft of the pier will have to remain closed as more problems have since been found in the region of the junction of the pier and the 1897 concrete extension.
Frank Riddell spoke about the students' "Last Pierwalk" (27/10/98).
Craig Barrett reported that the Students' Association is will be working with fundraising efforts not least because the pierwalk after Sunday Chapel is one of the (if not the) oldest extant traditions in the University. Craig is co-ordination the Students' Association activities to do with the pier.
Ian Goudie expanded on the written report, particularly the other community councils' suggestion that St Andrews involve itself more with major developments around St Andrews proper. This is something we have been circumspect about for fear of offending other Community Councils.
Dennis Macdonald asked about the views of the other Councils on Kingask. The majority (though by no means unanimous) view was against the Kingask development as currently depicted and others proposed or under way. It was accepted at the meeting that views could and would differ.
Cllr Patrick Cassells pointed out that the memorial was cared for by Fife Council Property Dept. (not Community Services as reported in the Agenda).
Donald Macgregor gave details of arrangements for Community Councillors at the Remembrance Day ceremony.
Following up October 5.1.2 Parking Charges David Kinnen asked why residents in Argyle Street could get a free parking pass for the Argyle Street car park when Doubledykes Road residents could not? Cllr Patrick Cassells explained that Argyle St is in the controlled zone, and covered by the Residents' Parking scheme while Doubledykes Road is not.
Donald Macgregor sought the support of the meeting for his proposed fundraising event, which was given after some discussion of the date (29th Nov), state of the tide (as it is a run on the West Sands) and beneficiaries. The Chariots event is on 29 Nov at 2pm - jointly run by Cttee of CC and Stud Assn - organisations and individuals are invited to raise money for the Pier Project (ongoing), or for other local projects including their own. Forms available in Good News, John Smiths, Public Library, Madras Community Use, and in common student-frequented locations. For Pier Project events contact Nan Taylor 472588.
Agreed Jan 11th preferable to Jan 4th.
Much debate centring on commemorating the late David Niven (the former Provost). No agreement was reached on the detail however so the decision was passed to the Planning Committee.
Ken Crichton suggested reuse of a defunct street name, another suggestion was that a list of potential street names be prepared for future occasions.
Donald Macgregor welcomed the explanation of the Lunch and expressed regret that its purpose had originally been misunderstood.
Golf committee has invited John MacDougall to a meeting to discuss the consultation paper, he has accepted.
There was discussion of a petition to call for little or no change to the current Links Trust arrangements. Frank Riddell made the point that petitions carry little weight compared with letters. Hugh Gray said that any input helps. Cynthia Tero suggested adverts in the local press in the form of cut-out-and-send comment forms. Murdo Macdonald outlined wording of the petition. There were various suggestions made of organisations the Golf Committee could contact to write letters of comment.
Dennis Macdonald said that the Links Act is not perfect and needs some changes.
As convener of the Golf Committee Murdo Macdonald asked for the committee to be given delegated powers to act on matters to do with the links consultation. The meeting agreed.
Ian Goudie welcomed the Commissions report on the St Andrews wards, they seem to have accepted completely the submission he made on behalf of the Community Council.
Donald Macgregor, as Chair, and Cllr Frances Melville both congratulated Ian and Margaret Goudie for the immense amount of work they did for the submission.
(Reports, etc.)
see 5.3.9 above
Fife Council will only provide a flag for special days, if we want one flown continuously we have to provide it. There were suggestions that a French Tricolour should be flown when appropriate (to honour visitors from Loches-en-Touraine for example). Daniel Johnson suggested that a Union flag should be flow instead of a Saltire to indicate our allegiance to the United Kingdom. The meeting almost turned political until Donald Macgregor pointed out that the reason for flying the Saltire is because it represents the Cross of St Andrew and we are after all in St Andrews...
Publicity Committee to investigate costs of flags.
Report by Ken Crichton
There are over 100 entries.
The Girls Brigade will be serving teas etc on the Saturday of the exhibition. Ken Crichton has sent out 50 letters asking for sponsorship for presents for the party.
and there are 239 individual invitations ready to go.
Yvonne Stewart-Meiklejohn has donated a for the Special Award category, which previously had none.
Archie Strachan, declaring a possible interest as Chair of Rymonth House, suggested that it should be inscribed with this year's winner of the Special Award, a disabled person from Rymonth House. This was agreed.
Les & Rec to arrange
by Archie Strachan
£50 Mr K Irvine, £30 Mrs H Buchanan, £20 Mrs D W Matheson, £15 Mr T Keracher
Report circulated by Ian Goudie
(from October 2.2.) Planning discussed these and feel that the desirability of plaques should be decided on a case by case basis. If anyone would form a policy it should be the Fife Council. We should write to East Area Planning Manager in Cupar to enquire what the general planning policy is on this, and if there isn't one, suggest that there should be.
Members of Planning Committee to decide whether anyone can attend.
Frank Riddell circulated his version of the photomontage views from St Andrews supplied by the developer. His are based on a typical St Andrews winter cold clear sunny day where the developers have supposed an (equally typical) overcast and misty day.
Cllr Frances Melville gave the dates for the Local Plan departure hearing for this (19th Nov, and the North Haugh Gateway Centre is the following week)
There was much discussion of the outline objections to Kingask. Dennis Macdonald was disappointed at the decision to oppose this development and questioned the grounds of some of the objections. He spoke for the development on the basis of job creation, the environmental benefits of golf courses as large green spaces and the benefits of a facility to outshine Gleneagles. Everyone else speaking was concerned with the negative effects of the development: traffic impact, appearance, contradiction of existing planning guidelines on local and national level, effect of the expected jobs on local housing demand in the light of the Strategic Study outcome, etc.
Ian Goudie, as convener of the Planning Committee, pointed out the importance of consistency of policy on planning matters, which requires objection to certain aspects of Kingask.
Hugh Gray was most insistent that the Fife Councillors should give their views on this project until it was pointed out to him that those on the Planning Committee are required to decide only on the material presented to them at the committee meeting, and that expressing an opinion might be held to prejudice the outcome, provide grounds for appeals etc.
Natalie Grant and Craig Barratt asked what the Blue Stane is? Cllr Jane Ann Liston helpfully explained that it was a 'Geological Erratic' ie a type of stone not found in the local geology. It is believed to be of Pictish origin. She went on to give some of the folk stories associated with the Blue Stane, but unfortunately time did not permit details. Cllr Patrick Cassells asked whether it might be acceptable to the community for the stone to be moved a short distance to a better location than the proposed beer garden as the proprietors seem to have no interest in it (The Blue Stane was signposted until the time that Kate's Bar became the Featherie & Firkin). No one expressed outrage at this suggestion.
On the main issue of the beer garden a number of people spoke against it. Natalie Grant made the point that whatever noise or disturbance there might be in that area of town the Students' Union gets the complaints.
Ian Goudie pointed out that the problem with Fife Council's desire to consult widely is who will they consult and how representative are these people. Nonetheless some progress had been made in the matter of consultation in that Veronica Henderson, the Locality Manager, who organised the forum, agreed that the Community Council should have a leading role in any such exercise.
Ian Goudie reported that the Strategic Study report had been accepted by East Area Development Committee and will go to Strategic Development 16th Nov. He noted that we had some objections to aspects of the draft report dealing with consultation and the Community Forum which are now improved in the final document.
There was little interest in Sweat- or Tee-shirts with the Community Council's Arms for councillors to wear at suitable occasions (eg outdoors functions such as bandstand concerts). There was some interest in rather more subtle identifiers such as lapel badges.
David Kinnen asked whether it would be possible to use the old Provost's Chain, but it was pointed out that this would not be appropriate as
(i) the Chair is not the Provost, and
(ii) if anyone has the legitimate right to the chain it is the Convener of Fife Council as head of the succeeding local authority to the Town Council via NE Fife District Council.
Murdo Macdonald and Archie Strachan spoke in favour of the idea of some sort of identifier - a medallion or badge of office for use at special functions. Hugh Gray spoke against.
Ken Fraser gave information from previous investigations on this subject, a basic chain and medallion being costed at about £250 some years ago.
Publicity Committee to investigate further
Caroline Jack pointed out that 16-18 year olds were expected to pay full bus fares while still at school, while university students could get discounts. David Kinnen pointed out that student discounts only applied to journeys crossing the Forth and Tay Road Bridges. Ian Goudie also added that there was a scheme in place for school students, but it was very badly publicised by Stagecoach. Cllr Frances Melville will raise the discrepancy between modern school age and discount fares with Transportation Service, but pointed out that Stagecoach requires the Fife Council to subsidise such schemes, and there is not much money available for such subsidies.
Frances Melville to report
Cllr Jane Ann Liston asked what had happened to the disco at the Victory Memorial Hall. Caroline Jack explained that they had ceased because of the lack of necessary adult involvement for safety requirements etc. Cllr Patrick Cassells suggested that this be taken up with Paul Marshal of Community Services Dept who is responsible for halls. Bill Sangster pointed out that the Cosmos is available for such activities. There is a meeting soon between Cosmos and the Youth Committee.
There is no planning permission for the site boards at the Betts development (Lawhead North) - developer will be approached.
Roads department have looked at alternative routes for traffic to avoid the works on the bridge but unfortunately there is none practical.
Asked if old wire rubbish cages had been collected yet as Fife Council had promised - generally no. Some people were in favour of keeping the cages to keep bags still and then put these into the wheelie bins for collection; and didn't want their cages collected.
Asked that we be careful to cancel unneeded bookings at the office, especially as there is a move afoot to start charging Community Councils for room lets. Ken Crichton explained that a recent problem with a canceled booking for Leisure & Recreation Committee was the Local Offices - he'd confirmed that his cancellation had been received.
Bill Sangster reported for the Merchants Association that £4,500 had been spent on renovating the lights for this year.
Lindsay Murray reported that a large party of visitors from Loches will be over for St Andrews' Week.
David Kinnen asked if the Community Council would consider changing the regular meeting date from Monday as this clashed with the main Students Association meetings, making it difficult for the student members, both directly elected and the appointed representatives from the Association to attend.
The Community Council declined to change.
Dennis Macdonald queried why a road resurfaced only a year ago was now being dug up by the utilities to install a new main. Can this be avoided and can Fife Council ensure that the surface is reinstated to the previous condition?
Hugh Gray commended this to the meeting, but regretted that he could not supply complimentary tickets.