At the Burgh Chambers, Queen's Gardens.
Chair: Donald Macgregor
Community Councillors: Craig Barrett, Mareis Cassells, Sean Dobson, Ken Fraser, Ian Goudie, Hugh Gray, Chris Lesurf, Pete Lindsay, Dennis Macdonald, Murdo Macdonald, Donald Macgregor, Lindsay Murray, Joseph Peterson, Frank Riddell, Archie Strachan.
Fife Councillors: Patrick Cassells, Sheila Hill, Jane Ann Liston, Frances Melville
Merchant's Association Rep: Bill Sangster,
Students' Representatives: (none)
Donald Macgregor brought the death of former Provost David Niven to the meeting's attention.
Ken Crichton, Helen Lawrie, Cynthia Tero, David Kinnen
Sgt Morris and PC Cumming answered questions.
Frank Riddell asked about allegations of drug dealing and disturbances at a house in the Lamond Drive/Langlands Road area.
Sgt Morris reported on action taken but pointed out that there had been few complaints. He emphasised that there was little the Police can do if there are no complaints or witnesses. He gave confidential contact numbers for Crimestoppers (?) and Drugs Hotline (0800-137121).
Numbers to be included in EVENT
Crime Pattern analysis charts show a 63.7% detection rate of crimes in the St Andrews area, above the Fife average (NB detected in police-speak means that an offender has been identified and reported to the prosecuting authority).
Eastern Division Crime Team: new group in the police, coming into operation 6/10/98 to undertake specific 'action plans' on disorder, alcohol bye-laws, etc.
Craig Barrett asked about the speed of cars in North Street, and whether cameras or similar measures could be used to check on late night driving. Sgt Morris replied that they would look into the matter, using handheld radar as there weren't the cameras available.
Frank Riddell asked about cyclists' lights now the dark evenings are drawing in. Sgt Morris explained that for a while the police had been operating a policy of education, warning those caught without lights, but that now this phase was over and they would charge those found to be committing offences.
In the course of this discussion the term 'Student' was rather freely used, and it was pointed out by Donald Macgregor that this was inaccurate and that not all the lightless cyclists and other offenders were students by any means and that the Community Council was not anti-student and deplored any suggestion that students were a particular source of crime in the community, which Sgt Morris agreed. Frank Riddell however pointed out, also with the Sgt's agreement, that an increase in population of 5000, student or not, young people or not, inevitably increased the crime rate. Though there were no specific student representatives present Craig Barrett, an elected Community Councillor who happens to be a student, agreed and supported these statements.
Mareis Cassells asked whether problems with the student part of the community could be dealt with through the University, particularly the Hebdomadar's Office. PC Cumming reported that he does meet with Dr Quinault, the Hebdomadar, regularly particularly to try to nip incipient problems in the bud before the full rigour of the law is required.
Chris Lesurf asked about parking on pavements. PC Cumming reported that there had been two calls to the police over the summer, resulting in a prosecution and a formal warning. He added however, that as with cycle lights a campaign of education was over and that offenders could expect to be prosecuted from now on.
Mr Christie reported that the charters of the town are held in Cupar and had recently been framed. He hoped that he would have the opportunity to see them on display in the Town Hall of St Andrews.
He then called on the Community Council to mark the 60th anniversary of the start of World War II in September 1999, pointing out that 70 St Andrews families of the time lost relatives to the war.
General Purposes committee to consider.
Along with this Mr Christie also called for the War Memorial to be cleaned in time for next year's anniversary.
Common Good Fund to be approached (Secretary)
Finally Mr Christie brought forward a number of proposals for memorial and information plaques to be placed about town. He suggests
Dennis Macdonald asked the meeting if anyone could put up plaques, the opinion of the meeting was that this was probably subject to planning controls.
Hugh Gray was against common plaques and called for an investigation of the planning implications.
Planning Committee to investigate
Helen Lawrie had been left off the list of those present as was Sean Dobson as he had not signed the register... Bill Sangster thought he'd been left off but later found himself.
Chris Lesurf queried 6.3.7, Secretary to check notes.
Pete Lindsay to check
(Action taken or other news relating to last month's meeting)
Secretary to write to CARF (Helen Pearson, CARF Headquarters, Unicorn House, Glenrothes KY7 5PD (tel 01592 414225)) to investigate Corporate Membership for the Community Council and arrange.
Pete Lindsay to write
Problems with CARF were again listed: lack of privacy in using rooms in the Fife Council Local Office, lack of publicity compare with the old Citizen's Advice Bureau service, apparent lack of independence from Fife Council and generally a perceived overall diminution of service.
Cllr Patrick Cassells reported that in an unguarded moment a senior CARF officer had admitted to him that St Andrews does require an in-town, independent centre for advice.
Following the letter to Fife council reiterating the previous position of the Community Council, and Cllr Frances Melville's request for further comment that she could report to the Fife Council <which> committee reviewing the bye-law there was a wide-ranging debate on alternatives to the current implementation of the Alcohol Free Zone and whether it could, or even should, be amended to make it more acceptable. Some community councillors expressed satisfaction with the current arrangements. Others expressed fears that if the absolute ban on drink was lifted parts of the town would immediately become 'no-go' areas because of underage drinkers. Bill Sangster reported that the Merchant's Association is happy with current arrangements.
One suggested change was to exclude parts of town where food & drink businesses had pavement tables. Some community councillors asked why this was necessary as several premises have these tables and they believed that drinking at a table is not covered by the bye-law. Fife councillors pointed out that it is and that such businesses were having to apply for relatively expensive special licences to cover the tables. There was some discussion as the exact nature of these licences, which Cllr Patrick Cassells undertook to check and report.
Cllr Patrick Cassells to report
The question of who was to attend this meeting on Thursday 8/10/98 aroused considerable debate.
Dennis Macdonald voiced his concern that St Andrews would try to dissuade other community councils from supporting proposed golfing developments in the area. Pete Lindsay who as secretary had organised the meeting explained that the meeting had been arranged to determine the views of the other community councils on these and other matters not to impose our views. There was then some discussion of what our views were and where they had been established. When the subject of who was to attend the meeting was eventually reached again several people put themselves forward, but the Secretary had to point out that he had specifically asked other community councils to restrict themselves to no more than two and that if St Andrews sent five as looked likely at one point the others might be justifiably irritated and there would be some danger of Dennis Macdonald's concerns coming true. Three delegates were eventually agreed upon.
Mareis Cassells questioned the need for our delegation to be drawn from the Planning Committee but the meeting agreed that this seemed appropriate as the main reason for the meeting with our colleagues was dealt with by Planning. If further meetings took place delegates appropriate to the topics under consideration would be chosen.
Ian Goudie, Pete Lindsay, Lindsay Murray to attend
(This change (item 5 was previously Correspondence) is intended to give officers a formal place to report to the Community Council on their activities. Trial agreed at General Purposes Committee).
Fife Council have announced a consultation and review of the management of the links. Donald Macgregor expressed his concerns for the rights of St Andrews residents in any review conducted by Fife Council and queried who would benefit from the Links profits - while these might go to the St Andrews Common Good Fund, as is suggested may be the case under a new governing act, he queried who would administer it.
Hugh Gray spoke with vehemence of the dangers of this review, attacking John Macdougall Convener of Fife Council and Vice-chair of the Links Trust accusing him of various personal ambitions motivating this review. He went on to quote figures of the Links income and expenditure making the point that he felt these were satisfactory and asking what need there was to change. He finished with a call for the Community Council to lead a campaign of response to the consultation to say the current arrangements should be left unchanged.
Murdo Macdonald, the Community Council's golfing representative, proposed a new Golf Committee specifically to deal with the reply to the consultation by the given deadline of 30th October.
Golf Committee: Murdo Macdonald (convenor), Donald Macgregor, Dennis Macdonald, Hugh Gray, Lindsay Murray.
Dennis Macdonald referred to the Sept 1995 meeting at which he called for a referendum on the future of the links. He also questioned whether Fife Council owned the links.
Donald Macgregor pointed out that at the time of the last review 3-5 years ago no need was found to change the arrangements, and questioned why Fife Council should choose to look at this again so soon.
Mareis Cassells felt that previous decisions on matters such as tee times may have undermined the position of the Links Trust.
Cllr Patrick Cassells suggested that the Community Council should demand wider distribution of the consultation paper - so far not even all Fife Councillors had seen it, only those on the Policy & Resources committee.
Dennis Macdonald then attempted to raise another point but Frank Riddell moved Next Business which received a majority on a show of hands.
Donald Macgregor pointed out that the previous urgency for Leven to have charges for on-street parking has been found unnecessary by Fife Council and questioned how some towns in Fife are free of charges while St Andrews, Cupar & Anstruther still have a scheme which he said is widely unpopular, more a revenue raising measure than effective parking control.
Meeting supported call for a letter to be written to Fife Council with our objection to this unequal treatment.
Chair & Sec to draft
Murdo Macdonald called for parking charges to be removed from the car parks at Argyle Street to encourage off-street parking.
There was a brief general discussion of options for controlling town centre parking without charges, various timing disc and voucher systems were referred to. No one expressed any desire to return to the free-for-all of unregulated parking just various objections and alternatives to the current system.
The scheme for refurbishment of the harbour and historic core of St Andrews, led by Cllr Patrick Cassells, has been rejected for funding by the Millennium funding body. As no one else is giving out the sort of money needed Donald Macgregor suggested that the Community Council Trust Fund be used as a repository for the fruits of a fundraising effort.
He did not know if it could so be used under its conditions, but this is being checked. The current trustees (himself, Ken Fraser and Marie Louise Moffat) are agreeable to such a use if it is legal. No decision can be taken until this information is presented to the Community Council.
Murdo Macdonald pointed out that the trustees might need to be added to if the fund were used as proposed, with possible introduction of major accountants to oversee the fund.
Joseph Peterson called for the harbour to be centrally funded by Fife Council as it is a working harbour but Fife Councillors pointed out that the harbour is controlled by the Harbour Trust, not Fife Council.
Donald Macgregor pointed out that for lack of funding to undertake essential repairs the Harbour Trust had decided to close off the pier partly out of safety concerns and partly to draw attention to their funding problems.
Cllr Patrick Cassells spoke about the rejection of the funding application he is associated with. The original Harbour Trust report on regeneration of the harbour area was accepted as a classic example of community involvement. Fife Council and Fife Enterprise became involved, the harbour scheme becoming part of the regeneration of the historic core of St Andrews. An ex officio committee was set up to co-ordinate the various linked schemes and community input. The funding application was rejected by the Townscape Initiative, a subsection of the Heritage Lottery Fund, saying it ‘...failed to demonstrate sufficient heritage or economic need&rsquot;.
Since then he has met with the Caledonian Foundation USA Inc who might support an initiative to look for private and corporate funds from the US for projects in the refurbishment of St Andrews. To achieve this, for tax reasons, a registered charity must receive the funds in this country, and conversion of the committee to a charity is being investigated.
A very recent development is that the harbour itself is in danger, with the threat of the pier having to be closed as unsafe. However Historic Scotland, Fife Council and Cllrs Melville and Cassells had met at the harbour and emergency repairs were agreed, without prejudice to other funding.
Cllr Cassells finished by suggesting that we work together for the regeneration project.
Joseph Peterson proposed that the matter of the harbour be further discussed next month with any necessary papers circulated beforehand. This was agreed.
put Harbour etc on Nov Agenda
No report
Dealt with as part of 6.5 Planning Committee business.
Late additions: Fife Council Supplies Catalogue, Information for East Fife Women's Aid, received.
The Fife Council Local Office at St Mary's Place holds a 'funding finder' database CD which can be consulted at the office, though they ask for a little notice to ensure the necessary PC is free.
An updated version was circulated. The Secretary asked that the details be checked and particularly the list of our representatives on other bodies.
Correction Hugh Gray phone: 476875 (now updated on the master list)
no meeting
Under 5.3 Secretary, Hugh Gray said that changes to the conduct of meetings (ie Reports this time) should be agreed by the whole meeting, not just the General Purposes committee.
Report given by Archie Strachan.
It was agreed to continue summer bandstand concerts and to approach the St Andrews Common Good Fund for financial support again if no outside sponsorship is found.
Entries have exceeded expectation. Mr Menzies Campbell, MP for NE Fife, has agreed to open the exhibition.
There was no particular interest expressed in seeking lottery funding for a Millennium celebration.
Cllr Patrick Cassells mentioned that the St Andrews Week Committee was interested in the work the community council did a couple of years ago on a Virtual Reality (VR) reconstruction of the cathedral. Ken Fraser to pass on the documentation.
Donald Macgregor suggested that Millennium Mini-Marathon or similar running race be considered.
Archie Strachan raised the possibility of a public subscription to buy the derelict Greyfriars Garden plot. Cllr Patrick Cassells reported that he is still working on this though progress is slow.
Report and draft letters circulated by Ian Goudie.
There was discussion of the Community Forum (agenda 5.3.1) which is mentioned in the draft strategic study report and commented on at length in the reply. Cllr Frances Melville pointed out that the Community Forum had already had one meeting and Pete Lindsay added that he and Donald Macgregor had attended for the community council (other community councillors were there representing other organisations). After some discussion it was agreed to participate, particularly as the Strategic Study and Consultation are on the agenda.
Pete Lindsay & Ian Goudie to attend
Donald Macgregor had to leave the meeting at this point, 9.20pm, the chair was taken over by Frank Riddell
Held over until November as time was running short.
(i) Three Community Council members to serve on the Youth Committee: Murdo Macdonald, Craig Barrett, Archie Strachan
(ii) It was agreed to co-opt a member of the Youth Committee as a member of the Community Council.
(Reports and Questions)
briefly mentioned: the Bandstand; that the loss of the Blue Flag for the beaches is expected next year; there will be a briefing by Planning Dept for local councillors on Kingask; she's still working on the Craigtoun speed limits.
9.30pm: standing orders were suspended to allow business to continue.
A less intrusive form of No Parking road markings to be introduced at the east end of Market Street.
There are no funds available for the installation of a pay desk at Church Square toilets.
Gave some more information on the VR cathedral project; has contacted Law & Admin about the problems with the Salvation Army (raised by Cynthia Tero (8.1 in the agenda)). Law & Admin to contact SA with concerns. Explained that Fife Council's apparent belief that it doesn't own the bandstand, which is causing some confusion in the various applications for funding for refurbishment, is due to an accounting device to give Direct Labour Organisations a 'client' to service.
held over until November