Meeting in the Burgh Chambers, 7pm
Chair: Donald Macgregor
Community Councillors: Craig Barrett, Ken Crichton, Ken Fraser, Ian Goudie, Hugh Gray, Chris Lesurf, Pete Lindsay, Dennis Macdonald, Murdo Macdonald, Donald Macgregor, Lindsay Murray, Archie Strachan, Cynthia Tero, Chris Young.
Fife Councillors: Patrick Cassells, Sheila Hill, Jane Ann Liston, Frances Melville.
Merchants' Association Rep: Bill Sangster.
Students Association Reps: (none)
Donald Macgregor drew the meeting's attention to the death of former Community Councillor David Lyle. Hugh Gray drew the meetings attention to the death of former District Councillor Dan Forrester.
Received: Dr Riddell, Mr Peterson, Mrs Cassells
Sgt Patterson answered questions
Q. Donald Macgregor asked about the effect of the Alcohol Free Zone.
Sgt Patterson said he'd only been in town about 6 months but it appeared to be satisfactory. There had been prosecutions, but overall it was quiet.
Q. Hugh Gray asked about skateboarding and cycling on pavements as a general problem. The Sgt was not aware of any particular problems at the moment.
Q. Murdo Macdonald asked whether the police in St Andrews are up to strength.
Situation is slightly worse than it was 6 months ago. Current strength is
There is to be no recruiting in the next 12 months.
Q. Chris Lesurf asked about parking on pavements, but the Sgt had no information - he'll remind PC Cumming of our interest (first raised July) for a report in October.
Q. Ken Fraser asked if Noisy Neighbours are causing an offence.
Sgt Patterson explained that this is a complex area covered by various laws depending on the type of noise, eg shouting & swearing can be a breach of the peace, but there can be difficulties in obtaining a conviction.
Minutes taken as read.
July 2.1 Chris Lesurf points out: There are going to be two trusts: one Primary Care (ie General Practice etc) and the other Acute (ie Kirkcaldy Hospital etc).
(July 2.2.) Golf representative Murdo Macdonald reported the shuttle's pathway had indeed been closed for reseeding, but was now opened again.
Cllr Hill added that unfortunately it was about to close again for the Dunhill tournament, so the shuttle would again run along the tarmac pedestrian paths for a while.
(July 4.2.) Letter from John Stark noted: wait and see what next year brings.
Hugh Gray asked the Fife Councillors about the general policy general spraying of weeds in pavements cracks etc
Cllr Liston: general spraying has been restricted for environmental reasons - previously spraying was regarded as the best way to control any greenery - but thinks that pavement spraying a victim of 'cuts'. Where growth may affect safety or threaten damage call the Local Office (412525) to arrange inspection and treatment.
(July 4.5.) Cllr Patrick Cassells on meeting with Duncan Chisolm (Assessor for Fife) - the only chance of reducing the rates burden on commercial premises (which was given as one contributory factor to the empty premises in July's discussions) in would be a general revaluation exercise. These have been carried out every 5 years or so in Scotland, but there is no sign of one at the moment because of pressure of other work on central government.
In response to questions from Murdo Macdonald, Cllr Cassells explained that the commercial rates are set by central government. Local government - Fife Council - only collect the rates. Assessment of rateable value is not conducted by local government. The Assessor is independent of (for example) Fife Council, though using its facilities.
The formula for assessment of rateable value is set by central government and is based on the Assessor's determination of the average reasonable rents for properties on a street. The determination discards extremes. The level of the rates, how much is charged per pound of rateable value, is fixed nationally by central government. Representations on the principles of commercial rates must be made to central government - local government has no power to change things.
Murdo Macdonald reported having received a form that appeared to be to do with rating (re-)valuation recently. Cllr Cassells was surprised by this and wondered whether the councillors had misunderstood the Assessor's comments about revaluation.
Bill Sangster gave the Merchants Association opinion on the state of the town centre - they are not particularly concerned at the moment, believe that the state of the town centre just reflects the natural business cycle.
Cynthia Tero raised the question of the appearance of some of the vacant premises: given the appearing posters in some shop windows couldn't agents get access to tidy and clean the shops. Dennis Macdonald explained that in many cases the new posers were slipped over the top of the shop doorway and hung with adhesive tape, that access wasn't obtained for this form of fly-posting.
Secretary to write to letting agents on the appearance of their property if someone comes up with a list of offenders and their details. Craig Barrett volunteered to collect information.
Craig Barrett collect & write
Donald Macgregor has written to Roddy Mann of Fife Council Cleansing and Waste Management about the state of the beaches, particularly Castle Sands, (litter etc) and the lack of replacements of vandalised waste bins, particularly in Queens Gardens/Terrace area.
Chris Lesurf asked about this letter (on the correspondance list rather than the main agenda). Pete Lindsay explained that it appeared to be a progress report on some reorganisation of local voluntary services, but as it had no contact details at all for clarification and was apparently written for those who already knew what was going on.
Cllr Melville helped with a quick summary of CVS Fife - intended to help co-ordinate and reorganise somewhat disparate voluntary services for greater efficiency.
Chris Lesurf will ask about this at Fife Health Council Meeting.
Housing officer, Brian Wilson - Secretary to write and thank him for the offer to speak to council, not necessary if things are quiet.
Pete Lindsay to write (done)
The meeting felt that Hazard, Kentucky did not present an outstanding enough case to reverse previous policy of declining all such offers. It was suggested that perhaps other places in Fife might be a more appropriate match in size and character.
Murdo Macdonald pointed out that the Community Council per se had no money to sponsor activities, particularly as part of a Fife-wide initiative. Suggested that the library approach the 200 Club or better still Fife-wide bodies as this isn't a specifically St Andrews thing. Donald Macgregor suggested that the secretary write to clarify what was to be sponsored, the letter received appearing to concern a lunch - what does a lunch benefit the community.
Pete Lindsay to write
David Kinnen volunteered
Chris Lesurf drew meeting's attention to Dr Lesley Henderson of St Andrews Health Centre receiving one of the six 1998 Fife Health Council NHS Awards in July.
Pete Lindsay to write with meeting's congratulations (done)
Secretary to write to suggest that Fife Council might be the better place to approach for a Fife-wide orchestra.
Pete Lindsay to write
Report by Ken Crichton
for Floral Competition trophies 7pm Thurs 24 Sep Burgh Chambers
competition - hard work by Dennis Macdonald on this competition brought in £101 (before expenses of £15 approx) - more than previous years. 45 shops were involved, only one problem (raised last month) which was resolved.
St Andrews reached the finals, results will be announced at a reception in Aberdeen (22/9/98).
St Andrews won award. Presentation to be in Glenrothes 26th September as part of a Garden Festival. In previous years presentations were local to the winning community. Cllr Melville reported that Cllr Arbuckle, Chair of East Area Local Services committee has written to protest at centralisation.
Pete Lindsay to write too
outside Boots (South Street)
Ken Crichton explained that Fife Council had asked us (KC in Donald Macgregor's absence) whether this could be removed temporarily for Lammas Fair. Agreed on condition that it was replaced and refurbished. Initial effort at refurbishment was unsatisfactory and Fife Council have removed it again to fix. (Now back in place 12th September). Mr Crichton has a letter acknowledging that is to be done at no cost to the Community Council (copy now with Secretary). Some officers of Fife Council deny that these boards (Boots, Bus Station, Tom Morris Drive (Spar)) are Fife's though the history is that these were funded by the Hamada Trust and presented to the town in the days of the District Council, and should therefore have been inherited by Fife Council. In view of the letter agreeing to maintain the Boots board each Lammas we reluctantly accept these as 'ours' it seems.
Has merged with the Friends of the Crawford Centre's competition. Boots will award vouchers as prizes for the merged competition. Display of entries to be at Crawford Centre gallery. Entries to be archived at the Preservation Trust along with details of who took pictures and why, as a historical record.
Competition will be open to all not limited to residents of St Andrews. Closing date is 31/10/98, prizegiving 21/11/98.
Has been set for 4pm 19th Dec at the Student's Union.
Donald Macgregor called for any Community Councillors who are free that day to go along and help. He also mentioned that this is the oldest surviving function of its kind in St Andrews, having continued since last century.
Art exhibition in the Victory Memorial Hall will be “Images of Fife”. Closing date for entries 31st Oct. Details from Ken Crichton.
Presentation of trophies will be 24/9/98 at 7.30pm in the Burgh Chambers.
Archie Strachan reported that the Bandstand Concert series had completed for this year then pointed out that the state of the bandstand is deteriorating seriously, to the extent of bits falling off - a roof access trapdoor in particular.
Archie Strachan to write to Fife to find out when bandstand to be refurbished.
Archie Strachan to write
Cllr Melville will write also emphasising the Health & Safety aspects of bits falling off.
Cllr Melville
Cllr Liston reported that Common Good Fund (CGF) had allocated £2000 to repairs and that Lottery funding was being sought for a full restoration. Dennis Macdonald asked if this was a wise use of CGF money in view of reduced income, but Cllr Liston pointed out that this amount had been agreed with the Community Council's CGF representatives.
A side debate then spun off into the discussion of the Lammas Fair arrangements this year. Pitch rentals from the stallholders provided CG fund about £12,000 last year but only £3,000 after various changes to the licensing of traders and the auction process this year. Cllr Melville, Chair of Regulation committee, explained that there were teething troubles with the changes, that several had been applied at once without fully appreciating their interaction. She hoped that lessons learned would be applied next year and things go smoother.
Donald Macgregor said that such things as Lammas Fair should be administered locally not by Fife Council. Cllrs Liston & Melville pointed out that licensing changes, introduced at the insistence of the Chief Constable, reduced the number of ‘dodgy traders’. Due to a bureaucratic mix up had excluded valid traders on the day. Cllr Liston asked if anyone thought the CGF should rely on income from faked or stolen good that dodgy traders sold? There was no dissent.
Cllr Melville suggested that the Chief Constable might be better able to explain his insistence on pre-licencing than she. Agreed to invite him to attend CC meeting
Pete Lindsay to invite
The debate was rounded off with Cllr Cassells assurance that members of the CGF committee were very aware of the constraints on them this year and would act accordingly.
Archie Strachan to arrange replacements for those that had left school and were now ineligible. Involvement of other Community Councillors welcome, he pointed out.
August: £50 Mrs Scott, £30 Prof Blake, £20 Mrs Drysdale, £15 Mrs Clarkson.
September: £50 Mr Smart, £30 Cllr Cassells, £20 Mr Muir, £15 Mr Christie.
Minutes circulated
To produce a mutually agreeable statement of position
Cllr Melville reported that the Draft Final Report would be circulated by the end of the week, responses by 7th Oct.
This triggered a long and sometimes contentious debate.
The propriety of Fife Council's involvement with the promotion of the Kingask scheme was questioned by several members of the Community Council. Fife Councillors pointed out Council's role in inward investment, and the necessity for Kingask to complete due planning process.
There was some discussion as to whether such golfing development contributed to ‘green belt’. Lindsay Murray pointed out the number of timeshare, chalets and hotels that came along with the golf course, (eg proposed development at Craigtoun). She also pointed out that Kingask's associated hotel/clubhouse was to have view of St Andrews, which means of course that St Andrews will have a view of it.
Dennis Macdonald welcomed necessary road improvements this development should bring and the 300 associated jobs.
Dr Goudie pointed out that Kingask is outwith our formal area of coverage for planning matters but that with its proposed size and location it will certainly affect St Andrews, so we have a legitimate interest. It was agreed that we should contact neighbouring CCs to discuss approaches to this and other rumoured golfing schemes.
Pete Lindsay to contact (doing)
Cllr Frances Melville was congratulated for her decision on East Area Planning to reject the over-intensive development (18 houses on a site previously zoned for 10) despite a favourable, though strongly criticised by this Community Council for apparent errors, report from a public enquiry. This is now to be decided centrally (Fife Council Strategic Development committee). Cllr Melville not optimistic that centre will be sensitive to the principles involved or the flaws in the Public Enquiry report.
Ken Fraser raised the temporary banner sign outside this new shop. Ken Crichton will contact the Enforcement Officers of the Planning Dept on this matter.
Dennis Macdonald appealed for tolerance in these early days of the shop as they need to attract attention. Ken Fraser replied that they had...
Report of initial meeting noted
Chris Lesurf reported that other pressures prevent her taking forward her ideas for EFFORT.
She also reported that fears that CARF (Citizens Advice and Rights Fife) might not be registered by the national CAB (Citizen's Advice Bureau) are unfounded.
Discussion of reported shortcoming of CARF compared with old local CAB regarding legal advice, and rumours that CARF might be reluctant to give advice on matters to do with Fife Council itself, possibly due to situation in Local Office building. Several Community Councillors supported the idea of a move to a separate drop-in or community centre.
Pete Lindsay to write to CARF for info about AGM
Donald Macgregor apologised for missing a GP meeting he was to host...
Chris Lesurf to arrange a meeting
to be discussed at next GP meeting (8pm 14 Sep).
to be scheduled soon now David Kinnen is a) recovered and b) back in St Andrews.
disappointed with Fife Council's refusal to undertake this extension, for lack of funding. Murdo Macdonald suggested that developer at Craigtoun should be required to fund this as a 'planning gain'.
after reports in the Citizen and other complaints Cllr Melville has had a meeting with Grounds Maintenance section. There seems to be a problem with the DLO (Direct Labour Organisation) carrying out the work as precisely as specified by Community Services Dept, not what was actually wanted by Community Services.
No success in getting this extended, yet.
Concern has been expressed at the state of this road with major golf tournaments and Millennium coming up. Community Services’ order went to the DLO in March, but no action scheduled yet.
Received on the state of gardens to flats about town occupied by ‘students’.
Bill Sangster asked if the traffic survey on the Craigtoun road which reported that traffic had fallen had been taken at the right place as the common perception was that it had risen.
Hugh Gray asked about the proliferation of temporary traffic lights at 'weak' bridges throughout Fife and how long they would remain.
Cllr Melville replied that there was no money at present to bring all bridges up to the new standards for large lorries (44 ton?).
Chris Lesurf commented that at least in the case of the bridge over the Kinnessburn at Abbey Walk it made crossing on the western side where there is no footpath, going to or from the hospital for instance, far safer.
A programme has been drawn up for their collection now the wheelie bin scheme in place.
There is to be a survey on the impact of the introduction of the bins on level of service.
Contrary to popular belief this was not protected as a listed building. An emergency programme of classification and listing of the remaining traditional shop fronts in St Andrews is being undertaken.
Linday Murray asked about possibility of skips for excess garden waste over the summer to save phone calls for special collections - Cllr Hill is pursuing this (& see below).
Cynthia Tero asked why business collection refuse bags are now smaller? Cllr Cassells pointed out that as businesses are charged per bag this will increase revenue.
(and any special uplift) needs two full working days notice ie phone early Friday for the Tuesday special uplift. The number is 412724.
Play area maintenance - still being investigated, disagreement with developer over responsibilities.
To Craigtoun (reported in local press recently) - council will cut back overgrowing hedges.
Reports to go to Regulation Committee, previously no committee was getting information on this.
to be re-established (the District had these) in various parts of St Andrews (and E Fife), for example Roundhill Road.
Was rung before the meeting, but need a change of switch for the mechanism so Jock Ballantyne, the hall keeper, doesn't have to stand with his finger on it to keep it ringing.
discussion established that last renewal had been paid for by Fife Council. They are to be asked to deal with this directly
Pete Lindsay to write (done)
Under review by Fife Council - comments by 25th. Secretary to write expressing CC's views established last year.
Pete Lindsay to write